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It is even more amusing and stupid to read Kakulavaram's contention that Aryans migrated from Europe Repeating a lie 100 times does not make it Truth By your same logic Kakulavaram, Had Aryans migrated form Europe the aryan literature shoudl have referred to Europe but not River Saraswati - Do yuou think you cna fool others so easily with your stupid lies? As I said if you can be idiotic I can be more idiotic too and I hgave enough patience to counter racist jerks like you - Carry on :)) If aryans invaded India 3500 years ago then then hwo could they talk about River Saraswati that dried up more than 4000 years ago? IF YOU HAVE A CONVINVING ANSWER THEN WHYH DONT U TYPE IT IN instead of runnign away?

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 7, Sep 2007 1:15:33 AM IST

Dear Devendra Verma, Earlier in different posts I said Reddys, Velmas, Rajus and Kammas, and Komatis are all Shudras. Reddy is a title like 'Patel' given to a village head and it is in use since 6th century. Similarly 'Setty' is a title given to a rich Komati. Reddys by profession were (some now) farmers. India is a democracy and people elect their leaders whoever they want. People who have no faith in democracy say the ridiculous things like Reddys will rule forever. I don’t understand the Komati’s argument? The modern educated men believe in evolution and science not pseudo demigods how man is created. The sad part is Aryans invaded and conquered India 3500 years ago and wrote the history glorifying Aryans as Devathas and the native Dravidians as Rakshasas. Rig-Veda filled with stories how Aryan destroyed the Dravidian kings. Like Tamil Brahmins, some Andhra Brahmins are very racist and they wanted to glorify Aryan/Vedic/Sanskrit culture. The truth is majority of Andhra Brahmins are as Dravidian as you and me. It is amusing to read Harsh Nevatia that Aryans migrated to west from India 6000 years ago. If Sanskrit was developed in India, it should be much closer to Dravidian languages like Telugu and Tamil, not German, Arabic and Latin. Dravidians were Brown people and they worshipped Siva and Kali and spoke Dravidian languages which are distinctly different from Sanskrit. On the other hand Aryans claimed as white race, spoke Sanskrit and worship Vedic Gods. All avatar Gods were introduced much later and mostly they were Aryan Kings elevated to Gods. Indus Dravidians created a civilization 5000 years ago which was the envy of the world. Indians Movies and Media projects only light skinned Indians as beautiful people which is an insult to 95% brown Indians. We Dravidians must liberate India from the Aryan/Vedic/Sanskrit racist culture, and make every brown Indian child proud of their 5000 years heritage.

Posted by: Mr. M kakulavaram At: 7, Sep 2007 0:54:18 AM IST

Pardon me if I am wrong but why am I getting a feeling that Our man either has created another id to support himself or asked one of his friends to support him in disguise? - Espicially after I had a relook at the writing styles - ?? :))

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 7, Sep 2007 0:10:11 AM IST

Posted by: Mr. Devendra Verma Verma At: 6, Sep 2007 1:27:17 PM IST ___________________________________________________ I think I aske dyou a few questions - Do you have any answers or are you too following the path opf Kakulavaram - Abuse/Mislead others and run away when they fight back? Your statements would definitely amount to utter lies if you dont show any substantial proof! ( Or else claim them to be your own views without any links to the real world)

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 7, Sep 2007 0:08:10 AM IST

Attn: Kakulavaram Madhusudhana Reddy Garu: ------------------------------------- I am extremely thankful to you for enlightening me a lot over the matter of 'shudras' 'caste' 'kulam'. In fact I have downloaded your description and read over it to some of the persons available within my reach in the office. Unfortunately your points were not agreed upon by them and they disputed this way. Reddys were shudras and opted for soldierships and kingships etc and thereby they had the right to rule the state of A.P. and since it is a fact they are ruling A.P. state for centuries together. They will rule for some more centuries again and again. I donot know how far it is true. Some of the Brahmins who heard my downloaded description went into high temper and vulgurly abused you. Your contention that Brahmins are also earlier white skinned shudras of India,is not acceptable to them.They claimed their fact that they are the true Aryans of Sindhu area and the offsprings of Brahmadeva, the creator of all men and animals. They are the most supreme in the society and their word is law. I donot agree with their way of talking here. I supported you only. Some of the Komatis (banias-vysyas)who heard me reading over your description did not agree that they are the earlier shudras who into trading and they are also black skinned people. They argued that they belong to the third group after Kshatriyas. They alone control the entire economy of the country and they are called Agarwals, Oswals, Shas, Guptas, Chettiars all over and the economy is in their hands. Todays richest group in the country belongs to komatis only and the examples are Grandhi Mallikarjuna Rao, Ambani sons, Mittal brothers, etc etc. I was not able to tolerate them while abusing the erstwhile kshatriyas and shudras who ruled the country. According to them Guptas age was Golden age and kshatriyas ruined the country and are now paying their part of the sins. I will come over to this portal once again after getting deep into the argument of the other groups on Sunday the 9th of this month. Let us wait. Regards. Verma&Verma

Posted by: Mr. Devendra Verma Verma At: 6, Sep 2007 1:27:17 PM IST

This is an article from Harsh Nevatia ______________________________________________ The Vedic civilization was indigenous to India and existed on the banks of Saraswati in 6000 BC. The Aryans left the Indus valley and migrated to Persia after 2000 BC. In the earlier article Hinduism and the Aryan Influence the theory that the Aryans had migrated into India from Iran around 1500 BC was described. This theory was formulated by the early European Indologists like Max Mueller in the middle of the nineteenth century and has been virtually unchallenged till a few decades ago. It is still taught in schools in India. However Indian religious scholars never accepted this theory. According to them the Riga Veda dated back to at least around 6000 BC if not earlier. Also according to them the society that created the Riga Veda was indigenous to India and not a migrant tribe. The European Indologists’ theory was devised to explain two undisputed facts. There existed a civilization in the Indus valley between 3000 BC and 2000 BC, of which there is considerable archeological evidence based on the excavations at Mohenjodaro and Harappa. This civilization disappeared sometime after 2000 BC and it was assumed that some invaders wiped them out. There are similarities in Latin, Persian and Sanskrit. Hence it was assumed that the invaders were Aryans from Persia, the same people who also migrated to Europe. David Frawley of the American Institute of Vedic Studies states that these assumptions were made to further the political and religious agenda of the British. This theory divided the Indian culture into Aryan and Dravidian, whereas no such division existed. This helped the British to divide and rule. It justified their act of invading India because they were only replicating what the ancestors of the Hindus had done thousands of years ago. This enabled them to date the Vedic civilization after the Biblical creation of the world in 4000 BC and after the Middle Eastern cultures, thereby making the Vedic civilization a derivative of another civilization. If the Aryan invasion theory is biased and incorrect then what is the explanation of the two facts that this theory first set out to explain. Later archeological studies and analyses by social scientists more sensitive to the indigenous people have revealed the following chronology. At least about 6000 BC, if not earlier there existed a river Saraswati. This river flowed somewhat parallel to the Indus and to its east. The Vedic civilization began to evolve on the banks of the Saraswati at that time. The river Saraswati is frequently named in the Riga Veda. This civilization flourished till about 3000 BC when for some reason the river Saraswati began to dry up and the civilization began to shift to the banks of the Indus. For about the next 1500 years the civilization evolved in the Indus valley, the archeological remains of which have been mentioned earlier. Between 2000 and 1500 BC the Saraswati dried up completely. Land studies today have shown the bed of the Saraswati as it once existed. Also at this time there were spates of successive floods in the Indus, which forced the people to abandon the Indus valley. Studies of skeletons in the Indus valley do not show widespread evidence of violent killings as in war. This is the explanation for the end of the Indus valley civilization. How does this theory account for the similarities in the languages mentioned earlier? Many inhabitants of the Indus valley moved east to the plains of the Ganga, where Hinduism continued to evolve. However others moved westward from India to Iran to Europe. Hence there exist similarities in Sanskrit, Persian and Latin. According to this theory the ‘Aryan’ movement took place from India to Iran and not vice versa. The Persian deities were based on the Vedic deities and not vice versa. In the Vedas the word ‘Arya’ means noble and does not refer to a race. Weigh the evidence for yourself and draw your own conclusion.

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 5, Sep 2007 9:50:11 AM IST

One more thing - Can you give me any links to the Tamil literature talking extensively about North India and beyond ( If Tamil Prvailed so much then there must be quite a few Tamil literary works talking about Part s of India other than South India and the age of that specific literary work)

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 5, Sep 2007 9:35:36 AM IST

Attn Mr. Varma, I would also like to see the link between Sanskrit and Germany and the proof that it was Born there - APART FROM THIS KAKULAVARAM'S BULLSHIT ABOUT SIMILARITY OF LANGUAGES. But I am definiteoly amused by your argument that 'Few Iyengars say they are Aryans - hence they are' .. IF they say that they descended from Jupiter, would you take that at the face value too?

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 5, Sep 2007 9:30:12 AM IST

If you visit Tamilnadu and enter any Vaishnava Brahmin (Iyengar) in Srirangam, Kumbakonam, Trichy etc and ask for their origin they never feel shy or anything to say that they are the original Aryans _______________________________________________________ If you visit a few parts of Vijayanagaram, a few people belonging to the OBCs claim that they are Aryans migrated from Germany ( Max Muller funda) - Would you accept that too? All the present Indians in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Baluchistan etc are the earlier dravidians ____________________________________________________ Yes Dravidians who are also Aryans! All other languages prevailing today are the off-springs of Sanskrit only ____________________________________________________ What proof do you have for this claim? Can ypou prove that Telugu was an offspring of Sankrit or Tamil? You have still not answered my question about No Sanskrit literary piece talking about Europe but the river Saraswati. It is easy to make statements and type in the conclusions as you like - you have a keyboard in your hand - but the things will be appreciated only when concrete proofs are shown, especially in the context of the Aryan Invasion Theory going for a Six in wake of the recent DNA studies.

Posted by: Malakpet Rowdy At: 5, Sep 2007 9:25:50 AM IST

Dear Devendra Verma, I agree with you the Caste system was created by Man, but I disagree that it can't be changed. First we have to understand what Caste system is, and how it came into practice? The Indus Valley people divided their society into 'Jathi' or 'kulam' system based on people’s livelihood. This has been practiced in every other civilization across the world. Indus people never said one Kulam is superior to the other. Typically they divided every village, 70% did farming and the rest provided the other services to be self-sufficient. When Aryans invaded India, they were white people and they super-imposed their three castes - Brahamin, Kshatria and Viashya and called all native Indians as ‘Shudras’. So you must understand Indus Dravidian 'Kulam' system is totally different from Aryan 'varna' system. Invaded Aryans were few in numbers and there was no continuous flow of white people. When some Shudras became warriors, they were promoted to Kshatrias, some wealthy Shudras were promoted to Vaisyas and there was miscegenation across all castes including Brahmins. Here we are talking about 3500 years of history and no pure Aryans exist in India. Other white races invaded and miscegenated brown Indians were Greeks, Muslims and Europeans. Today racially 95% of Indians have 95% Dravidian blood, yet some identify as Aryan and some identify as Muslims. We all know majority of Muslims in India were local people whose ancestors have converted into Islam. Unfortunately the partition of India brought Brahmin (Aryan) domination in India and Islamic domination in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Both these cultures are not native to India. This is what we have to educate Indians and Pakistani to free ourselves. Once we educate majority of Indian and Pakistanis that we are the descendents of brown Indus Dravidian people, and we are distinctly different from the white Aryan race. To many of us former President Abdul Kalam first a Dravidian by race, next a Tamil by his mother tounge and third he is a Muslim by religion in that order. The modern economic system freed us from traditional professions, and we no longer require a Barber son has to become a Barber. The US born Indian children are marrying outside of their caste, language and religion tells the change is possible in India too. We must focus in creating 100% literacy and full employment. It is really a tragedy, 60 years have passed since Independence, we failed to achieve neither of them and meanwhile we have tripled our population. Social change comes thru education and economic opportunities, not through shouting or bloodshed.

Posted by: Mr. M kakulavaram At: 5, Sep 2007 2:02:45 AM IST

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