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General Forum: My Motherland | | Is Indian traditional restrictions on women hindering the development? | |
| First women should feel free to enjoy their rights.
Mother-in-law is also a women and also daughter-in-law to some one don't forget that.It is not the traditions it is upto individuals to behave them selves. Tradition never said harass women.
Regarding dowry one should never force women to get dowry.You have to choose it before marraige.
Women asking for equality and condemn dowry
how is it possible.
men get some money and women also should contribute to their family.
if i get 20 you get 20 make it 40.use to your children.don't name that as dowry.
here few women afraid of giving their profiles but ready to critisize!
Posted by: Mr mahesh kadiyala At: 20, Apr 2002 2:43:14 PM IST
Wow!!! Quite a good deal of Intellectual Masturbation (IM). Now stand by while it is my turn......
As my favourite(Why? He forced people into thinking) Swami Chinmayananda says, the root of all this is Selfishness of the few haves as against the have-nots; in multifarious aspects. With passing time the people who wielded the power, due to the fear of loosing it, made the whole structure rigid and morbid. Tradition has got nothing to be blamed for. There are no restrictions. We have got ultimate freedom to do what ever. Looks like Sanatana dharma is the most flexible religion ever. If it was misused that is our problem. No other religion gives us this kind of freedom. Inspite of having some hundreds of crores of gods (super set of all the gods ever present in the whole world for all religions? ha! ha!), I don't pray at all. See where I am heading? If I ask today the Govt. of India to remove the reservations, I will be removed from the mortal plane. Why? POWERmongering...simply. If those who are affected most (in this case, women) were to come forward and dash ahead, who is going to stop them? My wife is the so called Feminist and I find it so enriching to see things from that facet. (The secret is: That concept of Feminism is fundamentally wrong though!!!)We are all Interdependent and FREE!
Posted by: Mr. Mokshamugalada Mokshamugalada At: 6, Apr 2002 6:37:32 AM IST
Great Ms.Meghana,
I feel, ur thinking is on the right track.
Keep going.
Here in Korea, I am inspired by the women, who work, moves freely. No "other" feelings in their mind. Every where they are equivalent to men. The country has seen rapid developements in all the areas due to this (I heard). Some 25 years ago, the Korean woman was restricted by their traditions (the case is similar in India now). But now the situation is totally different here.
I wish I can see India atleast after 25 years in the same or higher condition.
"LETS WORK TOGETHER TO BUILD SUCH A NATION"
Keep going..
Cheers
Murali
Posted by: Mr. prasanth N At: 8, Nov 2001 7:15:38 AM IST
Hi MrIndian Patriotic
Well done for your long posting about Indian traditions and its impact on Women. Go ahead with your analysis and keep informative front for us. I hope you are a history scholar and you have very great opinion towards Indian history.
Well coming to the point you told all the problems and how these are coming. Let's think about the solution as a patriotic Inidan. As quoted by Ms.Meghana is 100% true the change should start from women side.
So please think everybody about the solution point of view and share your ideas here. What way we can achieve something for this problem.
Let's hope to come Mr.Indian Patriotic Dream(of course all of us also wants the same) come true.
Posted by: Ms Madhu T At: 8, Nov 2001 7:15:18 AM IST
Hi mr partriotic indian, your analysis is highly intellectual and great. I think you love indian History.......keep it up. Well in this context i want to share my opinion....
."why do we always say male dominated society? why do we say men are responsible for the plight of women. Agreed in the olden days due to number of reasons women were being dominated but the situation is no longer the same. I don't say that men do not have any role in the present lifestyle or the problems which women are facing.
But to a whole lot women are responsible for thier own problems. First change should come from them.....why can't a mother-in-law be a mother and refuse to take dowry from her daughter-in-law? Well she might be having her own problems . She might be having a daughter for whom she has to give dowry.....this is a vicious circle. So first step should be taken by women.....If iam active in my class and move actively in the society .....my girlfriends start gossiping about me .If a woman becomes a widow or takes divorce and remarries gossip starts from her women colleagues (in work place) or from women in the neighbourhood.
Let women raise and refuse to be subjected to humiliation and discrimination. This again as said by Ms madhu depends on literacy. Atleast let all educated people raise to the occasion and take the step. Being a woman my self im feeling very bad in writing this. I hope things will change for better.
Posted by: Ms meghana n At: 8, Nov 2001 0:16:14 AM IST
The discussion on the topic initiated by Mr. Murali has been interesting. "Are the traditional Indian restrictions on women hindering the development?".
I would first like to shower my appreciation on Mr. Murali for initiating this meaningful discussion.
I understand 'Indian Tradition' as the cultural, religious and social customs, behaviour, habits, and religious beliefs which have been relentlessly followed in my country since times immemorial. We proudly belong to a country which can boast of 5000 years of unbroken and ofcourse, chequered history. Probably no other country in the world can stand in comparison with our country in this barring a few ancient civilizations like the great Egyptian, Mesapatomian and the Chinese.
We have a mature tradition, legacy and we proudly inherit it. We not only inherit but also pass it on to our future generations. The legacy goes on and on. And History, religion, culture and tradition can not be divorsed from one another. They are all intertwined.
It can be gleaned from our ancient history that women played a very significant role in the family and society in the early Vedic period. The society was certainly patriarchal and patrilineal. However, women also played quite a significant role in the religious, economic and political spheres during the early Vedic period. We come across great intellectual names such as Gargi, Maitreyi, Lopamudra and so on during the early Vedic times. The society though was not fully egalitarian, atleast was not exploitative. Women were given complete access to education. They were given liberty to choose their husbands in 'Swayamvara'. Child marriage was almost unknown. Widow remarriage was very much known. There was not much evidence of Sati. Women were given liberty to participate in the political assemblies. Even in the religious sacrifices too, the presence of women was essential. The birth of a male-child was always welcome and was celebrated but nevertheless, the birth of a girl-child was not unwelcome. On the whole it presents quite a rosy picture of the status of women in the society during the mentioned period.
But things have gradually changed since then. The later Vedic time saw some decline in the status of women. More of polygamy, taboo on education of most women, taboo on widow-remarriages, taboo on the women participation in the political life, all cropped in. Women slowly started to be seen as some sort of commodity and property of the male. Ofcourse, there were exceptions here and there. As centuries rolled by, the womenfolk have not attained much of social liberty. Exceptionally, there were some women who had some say politically. It was believed that during Mauryan times, women were employed by the kings in almost all the departments including that of the wrestlers and royal bodyguards. Royal Queens, Courtesans ofcourse played a significant role.
Since Lord Buddha had opened up the gates of the Buddhist Church to women, they played a significant role in the society. Incidentally, Gautami Prajapati, the aunt of Buddha was the first Buddhist nun. However, it is argumentative whether the presence of women in Buddhist church had led to the disintegration of Buddhism slowly as some historians claim.
However, it was later in the Puranic age that women were much reduced in status. It was during this period that Child marriage has become rampant. Female infanticide became more frequent. Birth of a girl-child was considered to be a big curse. Girls were married before puberty lest the father should go to hell. The plight of the widow was miserable. Her sight itself was considered polluting. Sati became an obligation and more rampant among the upper classes of the society. Education was almost completely denied believing that education would engender women rebelling over their husbands. There was no say for woman at all in the political life. With the whirlwind of Islamic invasion to India in the early medieval times, child marriage became much more rampant to avoid the girls falling into the hands of the marauders. Another evil effect was Purdah. Purdah is a symbolic gloom which was the influence of Islamic culture on Indian customs(while I fully appreciate the positive impact of Islam on Indian cultural, social and political life). Indian women in the upper classes were pushed behind the purdah.
We have again a few exceptions here and there. One example is the Vijayanagara age. It was believed by historians that women played a very significant role in the society and enjoyed good status during this period. But evils like prostitution, adultery became common and it was a symbol of the growing love towards luxury, opulence by the people. However, we have the status of women during this period somewhat better. There were great women poetesses like Molla (Telugu Ramayanam), Tirumalamba etc. During the medieval times, we also witness great woman rulers like Razia Sultan (the first Woman ruler of India), Rani Rudrama the great Kakatiya ruler. However they were only exceptions. The general status of women continued to deteriorate in the society. The Bhakti saints in the medieval times talked of emancipation of women. There were instances of great women Bhakti saints like Mirabai and Lal Ded.
The early modern period was a miserable period as far as the women is concerned. Sati, Lack of education, caste system, Purdah, prostitution, polygamy, plight of widow, all these have driven the earliest English educated Indians like Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Iswar Chandra Vidya Sagar to start a Socio-religious reform movement. Not to forget the herculean efforts made by our own Kandukuri Veeresalingam. The plight of women was greatly highlighted and efforts were made to bring some social change. The emphasis of the socio-religious movement on women's emancipation was noteworthy. Gandhiji particulary, did yeomen service for the women cause.
In the post-Independence scenario, unfortunately women continued to be exploited by not only their male-dominated society but also the total weight of the superstition and tradition. The Government of Independent India has been taking measures to uplift the status of women but they were too less and too feeble attempts. In no terms and figures, a woman and a girl gets the share they deserve in the society. The census figures clearly indicate social parameters which are very much depressing regarding the girlchild and the woman, whether it is literacy, infanticide, child labour cutting across both rural and urban areas. Tradition could be easily abused (not used..but misused). In the name of culture, the girl-child was neglected and her brother was fed well, educated well and nurtured well at her cost. She has no voice to complain. Her delicate shrill voice was never allowed to be heard. Her toil, agony, labour to bear, bring up children and looking after the house were not rewarded most of the times. No not to talk of reward, her labour of agony is never even recognised as such.
However, inspite of the gloomy circumstances, given the proper opportunity, the gentler sex has always proved to the world that they were no way inferior to the males in varied fields like Education, Arts, Culture, Religion, Political life, Economy, Science and Technology and virtually every where. Mrs. Gandhi, P.T.Usha, Arundhati Roy, Kiran Bedi, K. Malleswari, Shobha Naidu, Shabana Azmi, Lata Mangeshkar, Asha Bhonsle and scores and scores of them have always proved to the world that the contribution of the fairer sex has always been tremendous. Most of the contribution of a woman in the role of a mother, a daughter, a sister, a wife has always been ignored and they were unsung sources of inspiration to the world.
Tradition as it comes from history roots from the necessity at a particular time in history. It might have had good intentions at one point of time and no doubt utility. However, tradition should not be blindly followed. Every tradition should be put on the acid test of rationalism. Every tradition should be questioned if it had already outlived its usefulness. Mahadev Govind Ranade used to say "Whether tradition sanctions social and religious reform or not is immaterial. If tradition does not sanction, the religion and tradition should go and not the reform".
The other side of the argument is that tradition should be allowed to survive and is to be continued. Yes.. As long as any tradition like wearing a saree by an Indian woman is not a hindrance to her progress and freedom, she should continue to wear a saree and the culture should be religiously inherited and also to be passed on to the coming generations. Gandhiji used to say " Let the winds of all the cultures of the world flow into my room through my doors and windows. Invite and welcome them. But let not allow yourself to be plucked away from your own cultural roots by the winds".
Blindly following superstition, and denying women her rights and the liberty to grow herself intellectually, certainly hampers the women, growth of a society, curtail her contribution to the county and world as a whole. It is as if utilising only one eye by the humans when God has given two beautiful eyes called Man and Woman for the Humanity.
In our present context of India, the Womens Reservation Bill is long due. It is an open fact that the male dominated political world in our country certainly does not intend to lose their monopoly of power to women. The Men have failed. Let women also join and contribute. (If not completely take over). The Equal rights for women in property is still not a reality. Dowry is a rot in our society. Widow still suffers from descrimination and rejection. The girl child is asked to work in the house, in the fields, and denied basic and primary education. Female Infanticide does not allow the girl-child to come to life and see this beautiful world at all. How heinous a crime against humanity ??
In order that these things should change, the first and foremost thing which should take place is the initiative from the Government regarding the literacy of the millions of the nation. Political will has been lacking for such key issues. The Non-Government Organisations can always play a vital role. Every educated person in this country has a role to play and has the responsibility to work, influence the society and bring about the change. Otherwise every educated person is a 'traitor' as our great spiritual Guru Swami Vivekananda had rightly commented one century ago. Women should be given reservations in the Legislative houses not because they cant compete, but mainly because they were cajoled by the muscle power and money power by the rotten politicians.
I, am a common, humble Indian, personally feel that tradition is my forte. But I shall not allow the development of scientific temper and progress of the society to be hampered on the pretext of traditional restrictions towards women. Not simply the issue of women, but every gamut of the society. Once we start allowing the hidden talent, genius and intellect of our fairer sex to see light and bloom, I have no doubt that we will have a much clearer vision (we look with both the eyes) for the future. Let us all work together and contribute our mite towards this goal.
I wish my dream come true.
Posted by: Mr Indian Patriotic At: 7, Nov 2001 11:12:48 PM IST
I feel that the answer to this question essential needs three steps of analysis:-
a) Identify what our traditions are?
This is not a trivial question because, traditions keep changing from day to day. So
fixing the time essentially fixes tradition which in turn may make a difference in set of
restrictions.
(for ex: our tradition before 1970's could be that women "should not go for a career"
and may be these days things did change as people's approach changed bit. There are quite a
good number of people who beleive its not wrong for woment to have a career. Pls notice that
tradition does include the way people are think.)
b) Second part is to analyse the role of women in that society where this tradition is
prevailed or what that tradition expects out of a woman.
c) the last part is to check if the way tradition expects in anyway hinders the development
of women.
hmmmm! quite a big task put in a small question.:-) So let me try out.
a) Let me fix the tradition first; My choice is present tradition. (there could be many more
choices but I prefer the persent one)
b)
THERE COULD BE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DONT AGREE TO WHAT I SAY BUT THIS IS WHAT I THINK AND
BELIEVE IS THE MAJORITY THINKS
what (according to me ) is today's tradition expecting out of women is :-
(I am going to talk everything focussing only on majority ).Well, many people see women as
human beings who are affectionate adn can take care of their feelings (like say, as someone
who can share your joys;cope with bad moods of yours; etc etc). Many husbands (or parents)
dont really expect their wife (or daughters) to understand the bussiness/job problems and
give a suggestion. I am not saying that they will never approah, I just say its rare and
even if they approach the suggestion from a women is IN MAJORITY OF CASES IS NEVER GIVEN
PREFERENCE OVER THEIRS in some matters particularly in the matter concerning society.Its true
that husbands try to give the wife what all they have.yes they GIVE what they have but never
bothered what the other WANTS.they give money if they have, they give some joys if they
have...........or what not if they have; but never look from other side what the other one
expects.They expect wives to change according to HIS MOODS and WISHES but rarely bothered to
really UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS OF WOMEN.
Essentially, our present day traditions fail to understand the feelings of women but expects
a woman to cope with them for what ever they are.(fails to understand women - necessarily
means to understand her wishes in allllll aspects starting from love she expects to the
career, her goals, aims,dreams everything ....(just as the way she is expected to understand
the whole of man). so understanding just a part of her views like, say, love is not equal to
understanding a woman.)
For example if a husband doesn't want her wife to work she has to listen least bothered for
what she wants. There is no scope for a women to be the way she wants unless supported by
their husband/father.
No decisions expected to be taken by a woman not even to things related to her. Because our
society belives in wife,husband and family to work together; true that unless the whole unit
agree upon a thing its unwise to go on with the decision taken by one and spoil the family
ties. Relationships are to be restored. Every sensible person should support this. But for
the restoration of relationship, should it be that only women sacrifice their desires????????
Will there not be any attempt from the other gender for the restoration of relationships???
Afterall there should be someone in the family who agrees to sacrifice their personal
intrests for the sake of family (which is respected a lot and has to be respected). We are
able to get the best a family can give. It was possible because everyone in the family(men
and women) tried their best in restoration of relationships but a large part of burden
was/is kept on women. As they are the creatures who are expected to sacrifice when the need
ariases. :-) pity!!!
We people somehow believe that some people are expected to act in social aspects like earning
money or what not..... and every decision related to that; and the other gender to take care
of other issues like family, caring, affeections etc etc. Division of labour is good!! but
restricting some people (here on gender bais) not to participate in a part of activities
which are concerned to them is not fair. No one can decide in advance what the role of a
person is, without, the intrest of the one who really have to take up that role.The intrest
of the EVERY PERSON IS TO BE CONSIDERED (considered doesn't necessarily mean finalised).and
what ever seems to be more appropiate step is to be taken without any bais for any particular
gender. but I am really sorry to say that our society (hence traditions expectations are) is
PARTIAL towards male gender in some aspects and towards female gender in some aspects. Let
there not be any division.
thats what I believe our tradition wants from women, a caretaker of family and never to
involve in anyother bussiness. (true many allow wives to work but what ever it brings should
be controlled by him, whether its money or social living .....) She is a sacrificer all the
times for the sake of family whenever the situation demands.
c) Now lets see if our tradition really is hindering the "development"(development can mean
many things :-)) of women.Its not at all hindering for a woman who is satisfied with the
present situation. which gives her lot of joys a good family can bring!!!!
but the problem araises for those who really want to come out of the shell drawn by tradition
which defines the roles of gender.If her desires and aspirations are different from what the
tradition dictates to be (mostly concentrated around family matters)...........forget about
hindering the development.......its litreally KILLING A PERSON ALIVE.
Tradition doesn't allow a women to be the way she wants....It considers a women to be a
sacrificer when ever a need araises to restore the harmony. It may be an ideal quality to
sacrifice things for others; but not many and me too personally ever like to sacrifice
everything for the sake of others; what ever the other may be family etc etc.Our tradition
restricts a woman from desicion making of her own.
I dont think its nothing wrong in loning for a social identity or get involved in social
activities or independent thinking or independence or anything as long as they are worth it.
Afterall she is also a human being but born as a female. The only things that our traditions
or we fear is they may spoil other aspects like family etc etc. They can be kept proper if
there is attempt from the other gender too and stop thinking traditionally. Worst if the case
arise that one has to choose between family and one's own intrest (no otherway left) there
is nothing wrong even to choose non-traditianally --ones intrest. Afterall everyone has the
right to be the way they want to. If one is taking a decision it means that he/she has
thought well about pros and cons of the matter and we must understand that people who took
the decision are intelligent enough to come with proper one. No one, not even tradition
should dictate the decision. I am not saying one has to break traditions all the time.....but
just saying that tradition cant/should not dictate ones lives. Let no one be a scapegoat of
negative aspects of tradition. Respect ones decision than always going with tradtional
thinking. Our tradition is really great in many aspects that necessarily doen'st mean to be
perfect in everything.
Finally the conclusion is..........yes it is hindering the development of selected women.
Posted by: Ms Samatha G At: 7, Nov 2001 5:03:12 PM IST
Hi
Mr.Murali your question is not clear you mean to say women development or national development. Of course we all know every coin has two sides like our traditions and customs have both positive and negative sides. But very shameful thing is, as a so called educated people we are following only negative side of our traditions and customs. Our ancestors are far better than us though they are not so educated in our thinking. They gave lot of respect to women in all parts of life.
Anyway the topic is very interesting and Mr.Krishna Prasad tried his best to say that Indian women are more happy and more respected when compared to other countries that is only because of our tradition.
Let's come to the point I will not support Mr.Krishna prasad's argument at full length but at the same time we can't deny some good facts.
I do support that, all over the world we are ahead of everything simply because of our tradition and customs. Mainly marriage system and relation basis we set an ideal family system and it will be continuing since more than 500 years. Whole universe is very curious about our family system and they are wondering how we are maintaing the system successfully.
One can agree or not all the credit goes to our traditions and customs though in our country also women are facing so many difficulties. India is known to be a great KARMA BHOOMI in all over the world mainly because of strongly rooted traditions and customs.
As far as the development part comes we have to improve our literacy rate that is only helping point for us at this juncture. Don't say India is poor country. We have wonderful resources geographically and scientifically. India is a rich country with poor people. All the wealth is going to only some percentage of people simply they are taking advantage of illiterate people.
Indian women are not curtailed at any point time you can easily get examples from our Vedas and puranas. Women have taken active participation in all walks of life though it's a minor percentage. Our tradition is not a hindrance for the women to come out of their shelves, we people has narrow minded thinking and we are taking disadvantage of our customs and trying to make our egoistic ideas on women with the help of tradition and custom.
At least in this 21st century we have to achieve that broad minded thinking that women can think herself and she has some "Gunde chappudu" which we have to consider. This is our responsibility to make India more proud with our traditions and customs so please come out of the false ideology of our traditions.
Say together “MERA BHARAT MAHAAN” proudly.
Posted by: Ms Madhu T At: 7, Nov 2001 7:52:24 AM IST
Is Indian traditional restrictions on women hindering the development?
Posted by: Mr. prasanth N At: 28, Oct 2001 8:52:34 AM IST
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